The Voices of War

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My guest today is Dr Alison Broinowski AM, who is an Australian academic, journalist, writer, and former Australian diplomat. She is also the President of Australians for War Powers Reform.
 
Alison joined me to explore the current debate on Australian troop deployment, compare it to other democracies, and discuss the possible outcome of the ongoing parliamentary enquiry into war powers.
 
Some of the topics we discussed are:
·      Alison's background and motivation for war powers reform  
·      Changes in Australian defence policy during Prime Minister Howard's tenure
·      Impact of Global War on Terror on defence and foreign policy 
·      The current approval process for military interventions 
·      Proposed changes to the war approval process and potential impact 
·      Benefits of a parliamentary vote for accountability 
·      Risks of inaction and views on Responsibility to Protect (R2P) 
·      Reflection on US hegemony and ANZUS treaty misunderstandings 
·      Arguments against war powers reform 
·      Possible impacts of Australian involvement in US-led wars 
·      Parliamentary inquiry outcome and report release timing 
·      Alison's greatest fears if war powers remain unchanged

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My guest today is Dr Samir Puri, who is a visiting lecturer in War Studies at King’s College London and has previously taught at Cambridge and John Hopkins.
He joined me for a deep dive into his two most recent books. The first one, ‘The Great Imperial Hangover: How Empires Have Shaped the World’, explores how empires of the past still influence geopolitics today. And the second one, ‘Russia’s Road to War with Ukraine: Invasion amidst the ashes of empires’, published in late August, explores the role of imperialism in Putin’s ultimate decision to invade Ukraine and traces Ukraine’s fate as a nation caught in a geopolitical tug-of-war between Russia and the West.
Samir has also served as an international observer at five Ukrainian elections, including during the Orange Revolution in 2004. Soon after the first Donbas war began in 2014, he spent a year in east Ukraine working on both sides of the front line as part of an international ceasefire monitoring mission. Since Russia’s latest invasion of Ukraine, Samir’s analyses of the war have been featured by the BBC, Al Jazeera, Bloomberg, CNN, the Wall Street Journal, and other media outlets.
Some of the topics we discussed are:
Samir’s background and how it influenced his academic interests
Defining ‘empire’ and understanding the role of its legacy
Distinguishing between a formal and informal empire
The consequences of waning US hegemony and Pax Americana
The importance of history and lineage to national and individual identity
Understanding how imperial legacy contributed to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine
How Western democracies should navigate their imperial legacy
The significance of Ukraine for Russia and its imperial legacy
Proximity to history as crucial in shaping contemporary narratives
‘Great power contest’ as the present narrative
Exploring the structural reasons why Ukraine is currently a warzone
Understanding NATO and how it might be perceived outside of the alliance
Samir’s assessment of how the Russian invasion of Ukraine ends
Exploring the impact of the Russian invasion on Chinese post-imperial aspirations
Samir’s greatest concern as we head into 2023
 
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This a reminder that The Voices Of War is transitioning to a subscription model from February. More info here.
Those wishing to subscribe can already do so here.
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Today, I’m speaking with Professor Greg Barton, who is a Research Professor in Global Islamic Politics at Deakin University. Greg is one of Australia’s leading scholars of radicalisation, terrorism and countering violent extremism. He is frequently interviewed by the Australian and international media on these topics as well as on Indonesia and the politics of the Muslim world.
He joins me today for a deep dive into radicalisation, extremism, and terrorism as well as their causes and potential solutions.
Some of the topics we explored are:
Greg’s background and research in countering violent extremism (CVE)
Defining radicalisation, extremism, and terrorism
The explanation why Russia is not designated a terrorist state
Terrorism as a method
Dangers of ‘thought policing’
How to deal with extremism before it becomes violent
Explaining the ‘Push, Pull, Personal factors’ model to understand radicalisation
Systemic hate and its potential to fuel hateful extremism, violent extremism, and conflict violence
Similarities between recruiting into a military and a terrorist group
The role of social media in radicalisation
How online radicalisation occurs
Combating extremist propaganda
Effectiveness of counter-terrorism measures
The short-sightedness of military solutions to combat terrorism
How to prevent violent extremism
The Indonesian success in combating violent extremism as a case study
The growing threat of far-right extremism
Authoritarian populism as a key motivator behind far-right extremism
The potential risks of military veterans joining far-right groups
Pragmatic reflection about the risk to democracy in the US
Greg’s biggest fears for the next decade
 
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My guest today is Dr Alexander YC Lim, who is an Adjunct Associate Professor of Medicine with the Queensland Brain Institute. He is a Psychiatrist in private practice, and now almost exclusively looks after members of the Australian Defence Force, the Australian Federal Police, and the veteran community more broadly.
In 2019, Dr Lim set up Australia’s first integrated ketamine program for veterans, known as the ReVive Ketamine Program. Starting in February 2023, this program will become the subject of an ethics-approved clinical study into the long-term effectiveness and safety of ketamine for treatment-resistant depression and treatment-resistant PTSD.
Dr Lim joined me today to discuss some of the mental health challenges faced by our veteran community and to shed light on some emerging treatments that could aid them on their path to wellness.
Some of the topics we covered are:
Dr Lim’s entry into psychiatry and veteran mental health
The current state of veteran mental health support
Difference between civilian and military/emergency services stressors
Understanding the impact of stress, trauma, and PTSD
Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder as a multi-system dysfunction
Total and Permanent Impairment and associated challenges
Moral injury and what causes it
How stress affects our physiology, decision-making ability, and ethical frameworks
The need to indoctrinate appropriate ethical frameworks as early as possible
Importance of developing trust between the patient and their clinician
Treating suicidality
Drop-out rates in traditional psychotherapy treatment
Why medications are not the ‘silver bullet’ for mental health concerns
Synaptic Disconnection Syndrome and the effect of PTSD on the structure of the brain
The issue of treatment-resistant illness and the promise of ketamine
Preliminary findings and prospects of ketamine for treatment-resistant illness
How to access the ketamine program for those with treatment-resistant illness
As mentioned in the introduction, you can find Australian Defence Force personnel suicide statistics here.

To make the show sustainable into the future, The Voices Of War is adopting a subscription model starting in January 2023. Key points:
This channel will air full episodes until the end of January to allow those who wish to subscribe time to transition to the new channel
From February, this current channel will air only the first half of each episode and each episode will be bookended with a notice and link to the subscriber-only channel
The current library on this channel will remain unchanged and access to all previous episodes will remain open 
The subscription fee will be $ 4 USD per month, which roughly equates to $6 AUD or €3.75
A discounted annual subscription will also be available (2 free months)
Other options will exist for those who wish to give more, however, all tiers will unlock the same subscription
For anyone experiencing financial hardship and who genuinely cannot afford a subscription, please email me on info@thevoicesofwar.com as I have an alternate option 
Any educational facility that uses the show's episodes as pre-course listening need only email me and I will make the full audio file of your desired episodes available, free of charge
Link to the new subscriber only channel will be included in the show notes of all future episodes on this channel
Thank you for listening to The Voices Of War and I wish you a happy and safe festive season.
Maz
 
 
 
 

My guest today is Ye-Min Wu, who is the South & Southeast Asia Director at the Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue. Ye-Min joined HD earlier this year after more than 15 years as a diplomat representing Singapore at the United Nations, World Intellectual Property Organization, UN Framework Convention on Climate Change as well as the World Trade Organisation. She has also chaired UN negotiations and represented the Group of 77 (plus China) in talks on sustainable development issues.
She joins me today to discuss how multilateral negotiations are conducted and explains some of the challenges as well as opportunities inherent in the process. Some of the topics we covered are:
Ye-Min’s path into diplomacy
Managing the ‘negotiation theatre’
Finding the win-win solution
Building trust and credibility in negotiations 
Connecting to the ‘other’ and the importance of warmth
How multilateral negotiations are conducted
The difference between a nation’s bargaining position and its interests
How to successfully negotiate in Asia
Challenges of growing militarisation and insecurity in Asia
How Asian nations are managing China’s rise
Why peace agreements often fail
Ye-Min’s greatest fear and hope
If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon page here.

My guest today is Natalia Konstantinova, who is better known by her social media handle, Natasha from Russia. She is a popular Russian blogger and vlogger whose original aim was to help explain Russia to the outside world, but since her country's invasion of Ukraine, she has become a prominent voice about how this war is perceived in Russia.
Some of the questions we explored are: What does the average Russian believe is happening in Ukraine? How much support is there for the invasion of Ukraine in Russia? What information is consumed by Russians? What does Russian domestic propaganda look like? How are the ongoing military losses perceived in Russia? What are the impacts of sanctions on Russia?
Some other topics we covered are:
Commentating against the war from inside Russia
Challenges and support for protesters in Russia
Style of repression in Russia
Reality about elections in Putin’s Russia
How everyday Russians view the ongoing invasion of Ukraine
Reasons behind Russian apathy towards the invasion of Ukraine
Reflection on the impact of sanctions and how Russia is adapting
Information that is available in Russia and what Russians watch, read, and listen to
The dominance and influence of propaganda
What Russians know about the death of their soldiers
Natasha’s humanitarian efforts in Mariupol
You can follow Natasha on TikTok, Twitter, Instagram or Facebook, for more of her work.
If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon page here.

My guest today is Andrew Quilty, an Australian photojournalist, investigative journalist, and author. Andrew is the recipient of eight Walkley Awards, including the Gold Walkley, for his work in Afghanistan, where he has been based since 2013. He joined me to discuss his recently published book, August in Kabul: America's last days in Afghanistan, which is an intimate and deeply personal account of the fall of Kabul and the Taliban takeover of Afghanistan in August last year. Andrew was one of a handful of foreign journalists who remained in Kabul to witness and document this event.
Some of the topics we covered are:
Andrew’s exit from Afghanistan
Reflection on the birth and message of Andrew’s book ‘August in Kabul’
Hedging your bets as a means of survival in Afghanistan
The reality faced by everyday Afghans after the fall of Kabul
Reflection on the support for the Taliban throughout Afghanistan
The muddy nature of relationships across front lines
Why the Afghan government collapsed so quickly on 15 August 2021
The US-Taliban agreement in Doha
Impact of US military and logistical support withdrawal on the Afghan National Security Forces
Government lack of legitimacy in the eye of everyday people
The fall of Kabul on 15 August 2021 as observed from the ground
Survivor guilt and hardships of refugees
ISIS Kabul Airport attack and hell at Abbey Gate
US drone strike and impact of collateral damage
The reality and challenges of regime change
Andrew’s future
If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon page here.

Today, I'm speaking with Dr Pauline Shanks Kaurin who is a Professor of Professional Military Ethics at the US Naval War College where she specialises in military ethics, just war tradition and applied ethics.
She is the author of ‘On Obedience: Contrasting Philosophies for Military, Citizenry and Community’, which is a book we discussed today. As you will find out, the subject matter this book addresses goes to the core of what it means to be a soldier and to be a citizen. Some of the topics we covered are:
Military ethics as the link between international relations and philosophy
Defining obedience
Discussion on ‘choice’ and moral responsibility
Impact of mis- and disinformation on agency
Trump, ‘Oath Keepers’ and obedience
How bias and heuristics impact responsibility
The cases of Ehren Watada and Stuart Schiller
The idea of ‘disciplined disobedience’
When epistemological worlds collide
Training for ‘critical obedience’
If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon page here.

This is Part 2 of my discussion with Dr Jasmin Mujanovic. If you haven’t listened to part 1 yet, I suggest you do that first, as elements of the remainder of the conversation may otherwise seem out of context. You can listen to part 1 here.
Some of the topics we cover in this part are:
Details of the controversial electoral law amendment made by the High Representative
Perceptions, real or otherwise, of the High Representative’s bias and conflict of interest
Croat nationalism and its influence
The role of Croatia and Serbia in Bosnia’s integrity and sovereignty
EU vs NATO prospects for Bosnia and Herzegovina
What role Russia plays in the Western Balkans
The machinations to redesign the Western Balkans
Assessment of the likelihood of renewed violence in Bosnia and Herzegovina
Thank you for listening and if you’re getting value out of the show, please consider becoming a patron of The Voices Of War here.

My guest today is Dr Jasmin Mujanovic, who is a political scientist and policy specialist in southeast European and international affairs.  He has worked as a scholar, policy analyst, consultant, researcher, and writer in both North America and Europe.Jasmin’s academic research concentrates primarily on the politics of contemporary south-eastern Europe, with a particular focus on the politics of the non-EU states of the Western Balkans. He joins me today to discuss the unfolding constitutional crisis in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Some of the topics discussed in Part 1 are:
The political system of Bosnia and Herzegovina
Embedded tensions in Bosnian politics
Political actors in Bosnia and Herzegovina
Impact of Serb and Croat nationalism in Bosnia
Status of the 2nd of October general elections
Irregularities in the election
Victory of Pro-Bosnian candidates in the Federation entity
Attempts of further sectarian segregation by nationalists
Part 2 will be released on Thursday, 27th of October where we do a deep dive into the controversial decision by the High Representative to change the electoral law on the night of the elections. We also explore what this means for Bosnia and Herzegovina more broadly and what role regional and global powers play in the nation’s future.  
If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon page here. 

My guest today is Wolfgang Sporrer who is an Adjunct Professor at the Hertie School in Berlin and who was until 2020 the head of the Human Dimension Department of the OSCE in Ukraine.
Wolfgang has joined me on the show twice before, where we discussed the lead-up to the Russian invasion of Ukraine as well as the ultimate reasons and consequences of Putin’s decision to go to war. You can find links to those episodes here and here.
He joins me today to discuss the importance of diplomacy occurring in parallel to the war effort. Some of the topics we covered are:
Assessment of the current situation
Peace process and combat operations not mutually exclusive
Explaining mediation and different tracks
Relevance of a Mutually Hurting Stalemate
Appreciating the wide-ranging costs of the invasion
Expanding already existing dialogue mechanisms
Mediation must not have an end in mind
An example process with two tracks
German and Austrian sentiment towards the invasion
Military effort along with diplomacy essential
Focus on re-establishing European security architecture
If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. If you can afford $AUD 5 per month, you can also support the show on our Patreon page here.

This is Part 2 of my discussion with Dr Alex Bellamy, author of ‘World Peace And How We Can Achieve It’, which was the basis for our discussion. If you haven’t listened to Part 1 yet, I suggest you do that first as some discussions in part 2 might otherwise seem out of context. You can listen to part 1 here.
Like in part 1, we covered many topics, including:
Are humans wired for violence?
How states can actively reduce the likelihood of war
Clash of ‘Helsinki’ vs ‘Yalta’ visions
The paradox of US hegemony
The UN as a global project
Discussion on Interests vs Values
Military Industrial Complex and acquisition of arms
The role of International Humanitarian Law
Implementing the laws we already have to achieve Peace
Rivalry between competing visions on how the world should be organised
During this chat, Alex and I discussed Samuel Moyn's book, 'Humane: How the United States Abandoned Peace and Reinvented War'. I previously spoke with Samuel about this book and its thesis. You can find that interview here.
If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon page here.

Today, I spoke with Dr Alex Bellamy, who is a professor of peace and conflict studies and director of the Asia Pacific Centre for the responsibility to protect at the University of Queensland.
He is the author of numerous books, including ‘World Peace And How We Can Achieve It’, which was the basis for our discussion today. However, as you’ll hear, we covered many topics, including:
Outline of Responsibility To Protect (R2P)
Origins of the World Peace movements
Similarities of the extreme left and extreme right
Individual rights as a bulwark to collective violence
Importance of ideology and narrative in motivating wars
The paradox of nationhood – internal coherence at the cost of external differentiation
Galvanising of identity when under threat
Internal contest for the American identity
Some of the topics we cover in Part 2, coming out on the 20th of October, are as follows:
Are humans wired for violence?
How states can actively reduce the likelihood of war
Clash of ‘Helsinki’ vs ‘Yalta’ visions
The paradox of US hegemony
The UN as a global project
Discussion on Interests vs Values
Military Industrial Complex and acquisition of arms
The role of International Humanitarian Law
Implementing laws we already have to achieve Peace
Rivalry between competing visions on how the world should be organised
If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon page here.
 

Today, I spoke with Amanda Hsiao who is the Senior Analyst for China at the International Crisis Group. She joined me to shed some light on the increasing tensions between Washington and Beijing.
Amanda did this by tackling questions such as:
What are key points of difference in the US and Chinese worldviews?
Why are both sides intentionally elevating tensions?
What has led to the current change in decades-long status quo?
What is the importance of President Xi’s declaration of ‘reunification’ by 2049?
Why is Taiwan so important to both China and the US?
What do people in Taiwan want?
What lessons is China drawing from the Russian invasion of Ukraine?
Amanda’s work at Crisis Group focuses on conflicts in which China plays an important role, and developments in China’s foreign policy that relate to conflict prevention and resolution. As you will hear, it is understandable why she is a respected go-to voice on matters affecting China and the region. Some of the topics we covered are:
Amanda’s journey into researching China
Current state of affairs between China and the US
Increased tension = better preparedness
Narratives for domestic vs international audiences
The role of history in China’s quest for ‘national rejuvenation’
International laws, hypocrisy, and moral high ground
The risk of a ‘hot’ war
Language of ‘Reunification’ vs ‘unification’ with Taiwan
Complexity surrounding Taiwan’s status
Shifts in perceptions, especially the youth, in Taiwan
The historical, cultural and strategic importance of Taiwan to China
Lessons China is learning from Russian invasion of Ukraine
Regional impact of growing tensions
Current crisis management mechanisms and what else is needed
Likelihood of Taiwan pursuing independence
Relevance of Chinese demographics
Assessment of risk of Chinese invasion of Taiwan
If you like what you’ve heard, please take a moment to like and review the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon page here.

Today, I spoke with Dr Mike Martin and John Spencer who joined me for an update on the situation in Ukraine.
This conversation was recorded just after 9pm on the evening of 22nd of September, Ukraine time.
Some of the topics we covered are:
Impact of recent Russian battlefield losses
Significance of Putin’s ‘partial mobilisation’ and what it might mean
Attrition vs. Manoeuvre warfare
Possible next moves by Ukraine
The narrative surrounding the ‘referendums’ and their possible purpose
Thoughts on the ongoing weapons debate, such as about ATACMS
The risk of a collapsed Russia
Predictions for upcoming weeks and months
My previous conversations with Mike and John about Ukraine can be found below:
64. John Spencer - On Ukraine, Urban Warfare and lessons learnt
58. Dr Mike Martin and LTGEN (Ret.) Arne Dalhaug - Update on the Russian invasion of Ukraine
If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon page here.
 

My guest today is Paul Ingram, who is the Academic Programme Manager at the Centre for the Study of Existential Risk (CSER) at the University of Cambridge.
Up to a few months ago, he was also the Director of Emergent Change, which he established to further the understanding and practice of the Stepping Stones Approach (SSA) to nuclear disarmament. Prior to that, he was the Executive Director at British American Security Information Council (BASIC) where he developed the Stepping Stones Approach along with his colleagues from the Swedish Foreign Ministry. Throughout his extensive career, Paul has worked across the world on many projects related to nuclear disarmament.
Some of the topics we covered are:
Paul’s journey into research of existential risk
Likelihood of getting rid of atomic weapons
Whether existing global structures can help mitigate catastrophic risks
The importance of context and history when dealing with rogue actors
Importance of inclusion and diversity
Challenges of quantifying risk of nuclear war
Explanation of how nuclear deterrence works
What happens if Russia, as we know it, collapses?
NATO , US, and B61-12 nuclear bombs
Nuclear weapon command systems and current safeguards
Nuclear disarmament and the ‘Stepping Stones Approach’
I made mention in the preamble about a report on the Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference. You can find that report here.
You can also find out more information about Russian nuclear weapons in this article by Hans M. Kristensen from 25th February 2022.
If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon page here.

This is Part 2 of my conversation with Dr Jessica Wolfendale, who is an author, ethics professor and expert on torture and war crimes. If you've missed Part 1 of this discussion, I suggest you listen to that first here.
Some of the topics we covered in Part 2 are:
The dispositional account and cognitive-affective personality system
Military culture and socialisation
Freedom and resentment
Moral ignorance is by no means an excuse
Integrating the victim’s perspective into military training
The power of reconciliation
Jessica’s future work on depictions of war crimes
During the chat, I made reference to my conversation with Deane-Peter Baker about moral drift in the context of military ethics. You can find that interview here.
Additionally, if you'd like to hear more about the position I take on the idea of 'free will', I recommend listening to episode 33 with the renowned 'free will sceptic', Gregg Caruso. You can find it here.
If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page on the links below:
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thevoicesofwar 
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This is Part 1 of my conversation with Dr Jessica Wolfendale, who is an author, ethics professor and expert on torture and war crimes. She joined me to try and tackle the dichotomy of how to reconcile one’s perception of oneself with one’s actions, within the context of atrocities carried out in war. 
She does this by asking questions such as, ‘How do good people commit atrocities, like torture, and how are their views on killing impacted?’ and ‘Does the military training process make excessive violence acceptable and permissible in certain contexts, such as war?’.
Jessica is the author of ‘Torture and the Military Profession’, arguing that the prevalence of military torture is linked to military training methods that cultivate beliefs connected to crimes of obedience. She also co-authored ‘War Crimes: Causes, Excuses, and Blame’, with Matthew Talbert, where they unpack factors that can lead to war crimes as well as wrestle with the justness of responsibility and blame attributed to perpetrators. 
Some of the topics we covered in Part 1 are:
Capital punishment as detached, humane killing
The normalisation of violence
How do we live with what we’ve done?
Forgiveness, self-forgiveness and atonement
Obedience to authority
The Milgram Experiments and the Good Samaritan Study
Circumstances and the situational account
The justification of torture in war
Part 2 will be released on 8th of September where we discuss topics such as:
The dispositional account and cognitive-affective personality system
Military culture and socialisation
Freedom and resentment
Moral ignorance is by no means an excuse
Integrating the victim’s perspective into military training
The power of reconciliation
Jessica’s future work on depictions of war crimes
If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page on the links below:
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thevoicesofwar 
Buy Me A Coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/thevoicesofwar

Today, I spoke with John Spencer who is an award-winning scholar, professor, author, combat veteran, and internationally recognised expert and advisor on Urban Warfare and other military related topics. John currently serves as the Chair of Urban Warfare Studies with the Madison Policy Forum and was until recently the Chair of Urban Warfare Studies  at the Modern War Institute at West Point. He is also the Co-Director of the Urban Warfare Project, and host of the Urban Warfare Project podcast.
John is also the author of the ‘Mini-Manual for the Urban Defender’, which is a short compilation of John’s vast experience and there are currently over 100,000 copies of the manual in Ukraine, where it’s being used daily by the defenders.
Some of the topics we discussed are:
John’s background in Urban Warfare
Why Urban Warfare is the hardest
Explanation of a possible shift in initiative
The strategic importance of Kherson
Likelihood of Putin seeking a ‘frozen’ conflict
The ‘Battle of Kyiv’ and why Ukraine succeeded
Why understanding the ‘human domain’ is critical
Information and connectivity as weapons of war
Birth of ‘The Mini-Manual for the Urban Defender’ and its ongoing usage in Ukraine
Conditions necessary for success of ‘Total Defence’
Reminder why Urban Warfare is critical and here to stay
Why training for the conduct of area defence is essential
Reminder of why terrain is important
The ‘rule book’ of a nuclear-armed state
Importance of a Ukrainian victor to broader geopolitical tensions
During the chat, I made reference to my conversation with Carl Miller about Russian influence operations in the BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) countries. You can find that interview here.
If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page on the links below:
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thevoicesofwar
Buy Me A Coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/thevoicesofwar