The Voices of War

Today, I spoke with Ehsaan who came to Australia in December 2013 as a refugee from Afghanistan. He worked as an interpreter first for the Americans, then the Dutch and finally for Australian forces from 2009- 2013, He was ultimately resettled to Australia with his family due to an increasing threat to his life. He joins me today to discuss the reality faced by many of those who have worked with Australians and other coalition forces over the past 20 years. Ehsaan is someone who has personally experienced the fear and uncertainty that many are going through in Afghanistan today. During our chat, I use only his first name and do not talk about where he is from directly, as he still has family on the ground, whose safety remains uncertain.
 
 

This morning I spoke with Hizbullah Khan, a journalist and political analyst, who has been writing about the war and terrorism in Afghanistan since 2014. He has reported for outlets like the BBC World, The Independent, The Diplomat, The Globe Post and many other global publications. He joins me on the morning of 17th of August from Kabul, where it’s a few hours past midnight, to discuss the unfolding situation.

*** Before reading the rest of the show notes, keep in mind that, as at 21st of Nov, Kay and her team have successfully assisted over 3500 Afghan-Australian visa holders from Afghanistan. Keep this amazing feat in the back of your mind while your read the notes and listen to the episode.***
My guest today is Dr Kay Danes, OAM. She is the recipient of the Medal of the Order of Australia for her service to the international and Australian community in human rights & social justice. 
Kay has a PhD (Law & Justice) and her thesis explored the evolving professionalisation of the Australian Humanitarian sector. She also holds a Masters degree (Human Rights), and varying professional qualifications in Business Administration, Security and Law.
Her 25-year security and humanitarian career has spanned across Australian and foreign government departments, humanitarian, and private sector organisations in armed conflicts, disasters, and other complex emergencies.
Kay is also extensively connected to the ADF. She is the spouse of an SAS Veteran who has served 43 years in the ADF/SOCOMD and was Regimental Sergeant Major of two Special Operations Task Group rotations in Afghanistan.
More recently, Kay’s work in Afghanistan has been recognised by Australian and Foreign Officials as an integral part of a national debate on Australia’s commitment to Afghanistan. 
Today she advocates for the 196 Australian Embassy staff seeking protection and evacuation from Kabul. Given the current situation in Afghanistan, hers is an important voice representing those who helped the Australian effort over the past 20 years. 

Today, I spoke with Dr Mike Martin about the current situation in Afghanistan. As there is a lot of international interest in the unfolding crisis, I am releasing the episode slightly ahead of my regular publishing cycle and only two hours since recording.
You can hear Dr Mike’s full bio in our previous episode linked below as well as through his own website, which is also linked below. In short, Dr Mike has spent years studying Afghanistan, served there as a British Army Officer, did his PhD on British involvement in Helmand, is a fluent Pashto speaker and is the author of the book ‘An Intimate War’, considered by many Afghanistan experts as the most-authoritative book on the dynamics and true nature of conflict in this part of the world.
You can listen to our previous episode here, find out more about Mike’s work here and follow his Twitter feed @ThreshedThought.
 
 

My guest today is David Livingstone Smith, who is a Professor of Philosophy at the University of New England.
He has authored nine books with his more recent titles focusing on dehumanisation, race, and propaganda. His 2011 ‘Less Than Human: Why We Demean, Enslave and Exterminate Others’ won the 2012 Anisfield-Wolf award for nonfiction. David’s most recent book ‘On Inhumanity: Dehumanization and How to Resist It’ was published by Oxford University Press in 2020, and his tenth book, ‘Making Monsters: The Uncanny Power of Dehumanization’ will be published by Harvard University Press later this year.
David is an interdisciplinary scholar, whose publications are cited not only by other philosophers, but also by historians, legal scholars, psychologists, and anthropologists. He has been featured in prime-time television documentaries, is often interviewed and cited in the national and international media and was a guest at the G20 economic summit in 2012.
As many listeners will know, David is a leading thinker in this field, and has influenced much of our understanding of dehumanisation. We had a wide-ranging discussion and covered topics such as:
David’s motivation behind his research focus
Race as a cultural construct
The view one is ‘marinated’ in, is what one perceives as ‘real’
Different races vs. human variation
Race vs. Ethnicity
Assigning values to lives and the psychological cost of it
Overcoming the resistance to killing in war
Racilising and Dehumanisation as a protective mechanism in war
The cost of desensitisation to killing
Definition of dehumanisation
Psychological, political and social dimensions of dehumanisation
Why we’re all vulnerable to the process of dehumanisation
Dehumanisation is not a choice, but something that happens to us
The power of the environment and social forces
The need to assist soldiers ‘cleanse’ after killing on battlefields
The need to understand why atrocities in war occur
The ‘Essence’ of being human
‘Making Monsters’
The need to face our ‘past’ to understand our ‘today’
If you've enjoyed this episode, I would appreciate it if you could share it and tag @thevoicesofwar so that I can say hello.

My guest today is Professor Shannon E. French from Case Western Reserve University (CWRU) where she is also the Inamori Professor in Ethics, and the Director of the Inamori International Center for Ethics and Excellence. Prior to her current role, she taught for 11 years at the US Naval Academy in Annapolis, where she was a tenured member of the Ethics department and Associate Chair of the division of Leadership, Ethics, and Law.
Shannon’s primary research field is military ethics, with a special focus on conduct of war issues, ethical leadership, command climate, sacrifice and responsibility, warrior transitions, ethical responses to terrorism, the future of warfare, and emerging military technology, including Artificial Intelligence. Her publications include ‘The Code of the Warrior: Exploring Warrior Values, Past and Present’, which we discussed today, as well as a number of edited volumes, book chapters and peer-reviewed articles on military ethics. You can read Shannon's full biography here.
Some of the topics we covered are:
Shannon's entry into the field of military ethics
Background to the 'Code of the Warrior'
Common 'codes' among warriors across cultures
The embodied identity of the 'warrior' 
Our collective responsibility towards our 'warriors' 
Given how we fight wars today, are 'war crimes' and ethical demise inevitable? 
Issue of the 'Supreme Emergency' 
The need to focus on civilians 
Interests vs Values as reasons for war
Moral injury and 'death before dishonour' 
How do we categorise 'terrorists'?
Should we fight 'evil with evil'?
Shannon's new project on military ethics and AI 
I think this is one of the most important conversation I've had so far as it goes to the core of the reality of military service, particularly as it relates to the ongoing War on Terror. I would love to hear what you think so tag the show using the handle @thevoicesofwar on Twitter, Facebook or LinkedIn.  
 

My guests today are Will Yates and Joe McCleary. Will is a freelance writer, documentary producer and investigative researcher for television, film and radio with more than 18 years’ experience producing factual programming for outlets such as The National Geographic, BBC and the History Channel. Throughout his career, he has spent many years investigating the war in Iraq and recently published his first book titled ‘War Trials: Investigation of a Soldier and the Trauma of Iraq’.
The book is a true account of Joe’s time serving in Iraq as a British soldier in 2003 and his role in the tragic death of a 15-year-old Iraqi boy, which lead to multiple war crimes court cases of which he was ultimately cleared. Throughout the ordeal, Joe battled with severe mental health issues and has tried to take his own life numerous times. This book is the first time that a British soldier accused of war crimes in Iraq has opened up in an unguarded and in-depth manner. As a result, the book is a deeply moving account of the true nature of war and explores themes of military conduct and responsibilities of those serving in war zones.
Will and Joe join me today to discuss the book as well as to dive deeper into some of the issues Joe’s war experience has brought to light. Some of the topics we covered are:
How and why the book came about
Details of the tragic incident
Reality of soldiering in Basra during the first days of the invasion
The importance of shedding light on soldiers’ experience in war
Gradual desensitisation to human suffering
Looting in Basra and second order effects of adaptability and initiative
Life as an accused ‘war criminal’ and ensuing mental health challenges
Investigations and the trial
Life after the Army
As you will hear, Joe’s descriptions of soldiering as well as mental health challenges he faced are very emotional and visceral. Hence, this episode may be quite disturbing to some listeners.
Lastly, for my Australian audience, military and otherwise, if you or someone you know are suffering, there is help available. Below are some of the many agencies offering support. For my audience around the world, please look for help. Even if there are no services in your area, the internet has opened up many previously unavailable avenues. As Joe says in the episode, you are important, so please take the necessary first step and look out for yourself and each other.  
All-hours Support Line
(1800 628 036 / +612 9425 3878 if O/S)
 
1800 IMSICK
(1800 624 608)
 
Defence Community Organisation (DCO)
Defence Family Helpline
1800 624 608
http://www.defence.gov.au/dco/
 
Open Arms (VVCS)
1800 011 046
https://www.openarms.gov.au/
 
Lifeline
13 11 14
https://www.lifeline.org.au
 
Suicide Call back service
1300 659 467
https://www.suicidecallbackservice.org.au

My guest today is one of Australia’s most-prominent photo/investigative journalists, Andrew Quilty. Andrew started his career in Sydney, then moved to New York City and eventually to Kabul, Afghanistan, after a two-week trip to photograph the Afghan cricket team turned into an odyssey now into its eighth year. He has worked in all but a handful of Afghanistan's 34 provinces, photographed for most of the world's premiere publications and won several accolades, including a World Press Photo Award, a Polk Award, several Picture of the Year International awards and the Gold Walkley, Australian journalism's highest honour. 
More recently, Andrew has focussed on the written word. His 18-month investigation into a CIA-led Afghan militia, responsible for several massacres in 2019, for The Intercept, was recently the recipient of an Overseas Press Club of America Award. His most recent piece published in the April edition of The Monthly is titled, ‘The Worst form of Defence: New revelations of Australian war crimes in Afghanistan’, which is an investigation into alleged war crimes by Australian special forces in Uruzgan. This, of course, is separate to the 'Afghanistan Enquiry' released in Nov last year.
We covered many topics, including:
Andrew’s entry into photography
The craft of photography
The pull of Afghanistan 
‘Seeing’ the people of Afghanistan
Danger of oversimplified narratives of conflict
Second-order effects of coalition operations
Foreigner’s (lack of) understanding of Afghanistan
Background to his award-winning photo “The Man on the Operating Table”
Andrew’s shift to the written word
The dangers of life as a war journalist
Andrew’s views on the future of Afghanistan
You can see some of Andrew's photographs via his webpage here, read Andrew’s article 'The CIA’s Afghan Death Squads' here, and his article ‘The Worst form of Defence’, here. 
For recent updates on the situation in Afghanistan, you can follow Andrew on Twitter (@andrewquilty). If you'd like to comment on the episode, visit us @TheVoicesOfWar.

My guest today is John Blaxland, who is a Professor of International Security and Intelligence Studies and former Head of the Strategic and Defence Studies Centre at the Australian National University.
Prior to his academic pursuits, John enjoyed an extensive career as an Intelligence Officer in the Australian Army including as the principal intelligence staff officer for the Australian infantry brigade deployed to East Timor in September 1999, an intelligence exchange officer in Washington DC, Director Joint Intelligence Operations at Headquarters Joint Operations Command and Australia’s Defence Attaché to Thailand and Myanmar.
John's full biography, along with his academic credentials and the extensive list of books he has published, can be viewed here. 
As you will hear, we covered a broad range of subjects, including:
John’s Army career and journey into academia
Building the cultural knowledge of Timor Leste
When strategy and tactics don’t align—reflection on Australia’s involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq
Were Australia’s commitment to Afghanistan and Iraq strategic successes or failures?
Impact of operations in the Middle East on Australia’s understanding of Southeast Asia and the South Pacific
Understanding the human terrain and culture—critical to mission success
John’s proposal to create a regional maritime cooperation forum for Malaysia, Australia, New Zealand, Indonesia and Singapore—MANIS
Australia’s posturing towards China
Likelihood of war between US and China
You can access ‘Niche Wars: Australia in Afghanistan and Iraq, 2001 to 2014’ here. And, as promised in the intro of the episode, you can order ‘The Australian Army From Whitlam to Howard’, here.

My guest today is Džemil Hodžić who was born in Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and was only nine years old when the war started in 1992. In this episode, Džemil describes in intimate detail the hugely traumatic and emotional experience of watching his brother, Amel, killed by a Serb sniper while playing in the street. As such, this episode may be quite disturbing to some listeners.
Having survived the war, his experiences inspired him to launch the ‘Sniper Alley Project’ in 2019. The mission and goal of the project was initially to find photos of his brother. However, since its inception, it has grown immensely and today, together with the help of other survivors, his aim is to establish a database to record and archive the life of his brother as well as the lives of thousands of children who experienced the war in Sarajevo. By collecting photos of the Siege and preserving the memory of survival through the eyes of children, Džemil seeks to tell those long stories that have been forgotten as a way of preserving the truth.  
Some of the topics we covered include:
‘Normalcy’ of life under siege in Sarajevo
Coming to terms with death and eventually opening up about his own trauma
Murder of his brother
Remembering and memory
Life after tragedy
The ‘Sniper Alley Project’
The power of narratives
Importance of preserving history
On forgiveness
I was deeply moved and impacted by this conversation, and I thank Džemil for his openness and courage to be vulnerable.

My guest today is Hasan Aygun. He is a Turkish national, who has had an extensive career in international relations, global security and conflict management both as a diplomat and later as a political adviser. Hasan joined the Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs in 1983, and since then, he has served abroad in various functions, including Vice-Consul, First Secretary, Head of Mission and Counsel General in several different countries including Iraq, Italy, Serbia (at that time still Yugoslavia), Austria, Azerbaijan and Saudi Arabia.
He later became a senior political adviser for NATO where over the years he provided advice to six different four-star generals. During this time, he supported NATO humanitarian operations in places like Pakistan during the Kashmir earthquake and in the US during Hurricane Katrina. He also actively participated in Operations in the Sudan and Somalia as well as in counter-piracy operations and support to the African Union.
Hasan is currently an Associate Director at Strategia Worldwide, where he advises multinational businesses, governments and NGO's on complex risk management in conflict affected regions with a geographical focus on the former Soviet states, the Middle East, Africa, the broader Islamic World as well as maritime and energy transportation.
We covered many different points, some of which are:
The life of a diplomat
The nuance of balancing national vs. local priorities in a war zone
Reflections on Hasan’s lunches and tea ceremonies with Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi
The importance of ‘interests’ in determining whether a conflict becomes local or international
Secondary interests as reasons why the West invaded Iraq
Helping Bosnian refugees as a Turkish diplomat in Serbia during the war in Bosnia and Herzegovina
The importance of narratives propagated by ‘people you want to believe’ and ‘pack identity’ in starting and sustaining war
Why otherwise good people do horrible things
Post-conflict recovery as an industry
Difficulty and lack of incentives in finding a win-win solution in war zones
How national interests shape NATO interventions or lack thereof
50% of success in an intervention rests on understanding the culture of stakeholders in a conflict
Are all societies ready for democracy?
Why a war between the US and China is not likely
Finally, as you’ll be reminded in the introduction to the episode, here is the link for a short survey on the podcast. Thank you for taking two minutes to complete it.
https://forms.gle/HzBzMeDnGuSGUJi89
I hope you enjoy the episode.
 

My guest today is Major General Roger Noble, AO DSC CSC, who recently retired from the Australian Defence Force as a senior officer in the Australian Army. During his extensive career, he has commanded the 2nd Cavalry Regiment, the Al Muthanna Task Group in Iraq and was also Commander 3rd Brigade. Throughout his years of service, he has deployed six times on operations to East Timor, Afghanistan and Iraq. 
Most recently, General Noble was appointed as Australia's Ambassador for Counterterrorism and is responsible for leading international engagement and representation at bilateral, regional and multilateral forums in the field.
As you will hear, we covered a range of topics, some of which include:
General Noble’s first deployment to Iraq in 1992 as part of the UN Special Commission to destroy Saddam’s WMDs
Reflections on his return to Iraq in 2005 and 2016
Context behind his three rules: ‘Be culturally aware, keep a low profile and stay in the corner of their eye’
Negotiating with the ‘enemy’
Importance of individual as well as organisational self-awareness
The need for an anthropological understanding of our own culture, then of our friends and finally of our enemies
Suggestion on how we improve our understanding of the human terrain in operational theatres
Importance of on-the-ground personal experience within senior leaders
Why the military is the go-to toolbox for Western democracies
‘He with the best narrative wins’
The nature of contemporary war
General Noble’s reflections on the true nature of war
The risk of resting on our laurels
Finally, as you’ll hear about in the introduction of this episode, here is the link for a short survey on the podcast. Thank you for taking two minutes to complete it.
https://forms.gle/HzBzMeDnGuSGUJi89
I hope you enjoy the episode.

My guest today is Anthony ‘Harry’ Moffitt, a recently retired veteran of the Australian Defence Force where he served for nearly 30 years. Most of that time, he has spent in the Special Air Service Regiment, more commonly known as the SAS. During his time, he completed 11 active service deployments amassing nearly 1000 days on Special Operations globally.
Since leaving the Army, Harry has become a registered psychologist and runs a human performance consultancy working with sports teams, the military and industry. He is also the Asia-Pacific Director for the Mission Critical Team Institute. He is also the lead singer and songwriter for the rock band The Externals.
Harry also recently authored his memoir, 'Eleven Bats', which is a book about his military service, the SAS and his love of cricket. Along with the book, some of the other topics we covered are:
Harry's journey into the SAS
The first years of the war in Afghanistan 
How strategy translates into tactics or how it fails to do so
Importance of understanding the human terrain
Change in how the SAS came to be used 
The price of war paid by those most-vulnerable
Selecting the right people for the SAS
The act of killing and its aftermath 
Ethics of war and its link to mental wellbeing
The price paid by family members of those who serve
The power of cricket on deployments 
The role of education in a soldier's life 
This was a hugely satisfying and rich discussion and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did recording it. 
Harry's book 'Eleven Bats' is available at:
https://www.dymocks.com.au/book/eleven-bats-by-anthony-harry-moffitt-9781760877842
Harry's podcast with Deane-Peter Baker that we mentioned is available as episode #18 at: https://missioncti.com/teamcast/
Finally, the Externals recently released their new single 'The Hell Beyond' on Spotify. You can find it at: https://open.spotify.com/album/5NNRcziDrTnwr6orAT6R3N
 

My guest today is Cian O’Driscoll. He is originally from Limerick, in the Southwest of Ireland where he completed his schooling and undergraduate degree, before moving to Nova Scotia, and then Wales, for Grad School. He completed his PhD at the University of Wales, Aberystwyth, and worked at the University of Glasgow before joining the Australian National University, Canberra in 2020. 
His principal area of research is the intersection between normative international relations theory and the history of political thought, with a particular focus on the ethics of war.
His published work examines the development of the just war tradition over time and the role it plays in circumscribing contemporary debates about the rights and wrongs of warfare. These themes are reflected in his two monographs: Victory: The Triumph and Tragedy of Just War (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2019) and The Renegotiation of the Just War Tradition (New York: Palgrave, 2008).
Cian has also co-edited three volumes and his work has been published in leading journals in the field, including International Studies Quarterly, the European Journal of International Relations, the Journal of Strategic Studies, the Journal of Global Security Studies, Review of International Studies, Ethics & International Affairs, and Millennium.
Some of the topics we covered today are:
Cian’s research on the narratives that the Bush and Blair administrations used to frame the 2003 war in Iraq
Reflections on the widening of the jus ad bellum (justifications for war) since the end of the Cold War and its consequences
Exploration of Gulf War 1 as a ‘just war’ and the potential irony of its aftermath
The inability of Just War Theory, try hard as it might, to sanitise war
The challenge faced by military leaders when wrestling with Just War Theory
‘Just War is just war’
I thoroughly enjoyed this discussion with Cian, and hope you do as well. I recently finished his book that we frequently mention, Victory: The Triumph and Tragedy of Just War, and can warmly recommend it to anyone contemplating the complexities of Just War Theory—the principle tool used by Western militaries to manage conflict. 

My guest today is Pip Weiland. She commissioned into the Australian Army Psychology Corps in 2003, and in her career performed diverse roles across clinical, organisational, professional development, research and staff positions. She has deployed to the Solomon Islands, Iraq, and to Afghanistan on two occasions. Whilst deployed to Afghanistan, she was the lead in the critical incident response to Australian Army soldiers killed in action. She ended her military career in 2020, as the Commanding Officer, 1st Psychology Unit.
Pip was awarded a Conspicuous Service Cross in the 2018 Queen’s Birthday Honours for the superior management of several sensitive, high-profile matters including the immediate psychological response to witnesses to the death of a soldier in training.
Pip is passionate about evidence-based treatments and has a special interest in psychological resilience and the mental health issues associated with exposure to combat. She is now a Regional Director for Open Arms – an organisation focused on providing mental health and wellbeing support for current and ex-serving Australian Defence Force personnel and their families.
Some of the topics we covered are:
Psychological screening on operations
Stigma surrounding psychological treatment
Truth about ongoing employability despite mental health challenges
Critical incident management in response to death on operations
The importance of the ‘tribe’ for mental wellbeing
The process of identity creation in the military
Suicide rates in defence members
Treatment of mental health challenges
Services offered by Open Arms
This was another hugely insightful episode that touched on many aspects of mental health challenges experienced by veterans and their families. For our Australian audience, particularly around ANZAC Day, please look out for one another and reach out to any of the numbers below if you or someone you know may need a helping hand:
All-hours Support Line
(1800 628 036 / +612 9425 3878 if O/S)
 
Open Arms (VVCS)
1800 011 046
https://www.openarms.gov.au/
 
1800 IMSICK
(1800 624 608)
 
Defence Community Organisation (DCO)
Defence Family Helpline
1800 624 608
http://www.defence.gov.au/dco/
 
Lifeline
13 11 14
https://www.lifeline.org.au
 
Suicide Call back service
1300 659 467
https://www.suicidecallbackservice.org.au
 
Soldier On
1300 620 380
www.soldieron.org.au

My guest today is Brendan Cox. He has served in the Australian Army for 25 years, first as a soldier, and later as an officer in the Infantry Corps. During his time, he has done a number of operational tours including to Bosnia, East Timor and Afghanistan. For his exemplary service, he has received a number of awards, including a Commendation for Distinguished Service in the Australia Day Honours List in 2014. 
Brendan is now the Chief Executive Officer of Legacy Brisbane, an organisation that supports families who are experiencing hardship due to the loss or injury of a loved one while serving in the armed forces. Some of the topics we covered are:
Brendan’s first encounter with death on operations while in Bosnia
Healing our own wounds by helping others
Responsibilities of command
Importance of staying engaged with families while loved ones are deployed
Building partnerships with foreign forces
Importance of understanding the human terrain
Legacy and its work with families
Legacy and its work with youth
As you will hear, this was a truly humbling conversation and I encourage you to support the work done by Legacy. You can find more details on:
https://www.legacy.com.au/
 
 
 
 

My guest today is Tomislav (Tomo) Cvitanusic. He is a well-known figure across the Balkans and beyond, not only for being an extreme alpinist and long-distance athlete, but also for his promotion of cooperation and unity across the region. As one of the many who served in the Bosnian Army from 1992-1995, Tomo spent the whole war in his city, Sarajevo. At the end of the war, he became a beacon of positivity across the region by promoting tolerance, hard work and patience. He was one of the few who in the early days after the war sought to become the change he wanted to see in his community. This quest for betterment has led him to conquering some of the world’s highest mountains including Mt. Blanc, GrossGlockner, Elbrus, Ararat, Aconcagua, Denali, and the famous Matterhorn. He has completed more than fifteen marathons around the world, including four of the "World’s Major Marathons” in Berlin, Boston, NYC and London. Recently, he also became the first person from the former Yugoslav republics to complete the prestigious and most extreme triathlon in the world, NORSEMAN in Norway. As you will hear, we talked about some of his experiences from the war and how these shaped who he became. Some of the topics we covered are:
What life inside a war zone is really like
Banality of conflict and how we can rebuild trust in disrupted communities.
Survival of humanity and decency inside a war zone
Where Bosnia and Herzegovina is today, more than 25 years after Dayton
Links between life in a war zone and endurance sports
Tomo’s views about the transience of life and responsibility to help others
I walked away from this conversation inspired to find new ways to contribute to my community. I wish you the same and hope that you enjoy this episode.

My guest today is Paul Marshall. He is a recently retired British Army officer who spent 34 years in uniform. He has deployed on multiple military operations all over the world including on combat, peacekeeping and post-conflict recovery operations. He started his career in South Korea as a UN observer before spending time in Bosnia and Herzegovina during some of the most difficult times of the war. He also took part in both Gulf wars as part of the fighting forces. In the subsequent years he supported a number of global crises and natural disasters before once again returning to Bosnia and Herzegovina in 2014, this time in the prestigious role of United Kingdom Defence Attaché to Bosnia and Herzegovina. Some of the topics we discussed are:
Tensions at the DMZ between South and North Korea
Management of Iraqi prisoners of war
Scars of war among some of his peers
The aftermath of the Ahmići massacre in Bosnia and Herzegovina
The importance of immediate support during natural disasters
Understanding of the local context as a force multiplier
As you will hear in the episode, we make reference to the Ahmići massacre in Bosnia and Herzegovina. You can find further information here:
https://ahmici.sensecentar.org/
Also, I made reference in the discussion about Bosnia and Herzegovina being the highest recipient per capita of foreign aid. Here is the data from The World Bank. When looking at the figure, keep in mind that the population of Bosnia and Herzegovina is around 3.3-3.35 million.
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/DT.ODA.ODAT.CD?locations=BA

My guest today is Dr Mike Wessells, Professor at Columbia University in the Program on Forced Migration and Health.
Over the decades, Mike has conducted extensive research on the holistic impacts of war and political violence on children, and he is author of the book ‘Child Soldiers: From Violence to Protection’.
Currently, Mike is the lead researcher on inter-agency and multi-country action research on strengthening community-based child protection mechanisms. He also regularly advises UN agencies, governments, and donors on issues of child protection and psychosocial support, including in communities and schools.
Some of the topics we covered during our conversation are:
Ongoing confusion about the definition of Child Soldiers
Some of the push and pull factors that encourage child soldiering
How children deal with trauma
Misunderstanding of Western interventions
Importance of culturally appropriate interventions
Agency of children in war
Healing and overcoming trauma
Self-care needs of humanitarian workers
This was a very confronting conversation and I remain deeply grateful to Mike for sharing his invaluable lessons on this important topic. As you will hear, not only is Mike an eminent expert on the subject, but he is also deeply compassionate and a true gentleman.
You can find out more about Mike’s work and his publications on:
https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/people/our-faculty/mgw2106
And you can find out about his book ‘Child Soldiers: From Violence to Protection’ here:
https://www.amazon.com/Child-Soldiers-Protection-Michael-Wessells/dp/0674032551
 
 

Today I’m proud to be bringing to you an episode on a topic that, as an Army officer, I think is not discussed enough—Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) amongst war veterans. My guest, Ashley Judd, and I went through our Army officer training at the Royal Military College – Duntroon together, way back in 2007. Since then, Ash spent 8 years in the Army and is a veteran of the war in Afghanistan. Due to his experiences of that war, and his actions and responsibilities in the line of duty, Ash faced significant challenges and was ultimately diagnosed with PTSD. In the years following, he became somewhat of a spokesperson for lifting the veil of shame on PTSD. I think this is an incredibly important conversation, both because Ash spoke so candidly and openly about his experience, but also because it sheds much light onto the fact that recovery is possible.
Some of the things we covered are:
Ash’s reasons for joining the military
The training he received and how effectively it had prepared him for combat
The challenge and privilege of command
His experience of combat
His struggle with mental illness
Speaking out publicly and accompanying fears
Recovery and finding meaning again
As promised in the episode, here are the links to Ash’s excellent TedX Talk at the London Business School:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0NMDlkarvE
as well as to the ABC Insight episode I referred to during out conversation:
https://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/11868227710/insight-s2012-ep30-insight-2012-ep-30
Lastly, for my Australian audience, military and otherwise, if you or someone you know are suffering, there is a lot help available. Below are the contacts and websites of some of the many agencies offering support. For my audience around the world, please look for help. Even if there are no services in your area, the internet has opened up many previously unavailable avenues. As Ash says in the episode, you are important, so please take the necessary first step and look out for yourself and each other.  
All-hours Support Line
(1800 628 036 / +612 9425 3878 if O/S)
 
1800 IMSICK
(1800 624 608)
 
Defence Community Organisation (DCO)
Defence Family Helpline
1800 624 608
http://www.defence.gov.au/dco/
 
Open Arms (VVCS)
1800 011 046
https://www.openarms.gov.au/
 
Lifeline
13 11 14
https://www.lifeline.org.au
 
Suicide Call back service
1300 659 467
https://www.suicidecallbackservice.org.au